In one of his first in-depth interviews since taking a role in the U.S. government, Elon Musk spoke with podcaster Joe Rogan about the Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) and its cost-cutting efforts. While Musk repeated claims about government waste and fraud, he provided little new insight into DOGE’s operations, leaving many questions unanswered.
During the three-hour discussion, Musk also addressed conspiracy theories, political controversies, and staffing concerns within DOGE. However, critics argue that his statements lacked concrete evidence, and several of his claims had already been debunked by fact-checkers.
Musk’s Role in the Government and DOGE’s Influence
Although Musk’s exact position in the government remains unclear, President Donald Trump has described him as leading DOGE’s efforts to cut the federal workforce. At Trump’s first Cabinet meeting, Musk was given an outsized role, speaking for a large portion of the discussion.
DOGE is currently facing nearly a dozen lawsuits over its access to government data and methods of operation. Critics, including politicians and federal officials, have called for greater transparency regarding the department’s staffing, decision-making, and impact on public services.
Musk’s Claims About Government Waste and Fraud
Musk made several claims about fraud in government programs, particularly related to Social Security and FEMA spending. However, many of these claims have been challenged or outright debunked by independent fact-checkers.
Social Security Fraud Allegations
Musk claimed that a “basic search” of the Social Security database found 20 million dead people still marked as alive and suggested that some of them were receiving benefits. However, the Social Security Administration pushed back against these claims.
Social Security Acting Commissioner Lee Dudek clarified that these records do not necessarily mean the individuals were receiving benefits—only that their deaths had not been officially recorded in the system.
FEMA Spending on Migrants
Musk also claimed that FEMA had spent $59 million on housing for migrants, a statement he previously posted on X (formerly Twitter). However, this spending was already publicly disclosed and appropriated by Congress.
Interestingly, one day after Musk made his post, four FEMA officials were fired for their involvement in funding hotels for migrants in New York City. However, there is no evidence that DOGE was responsible for uncovering this information.
DOGE’s Lack of Transparency and Staffing Concerns
One of the biggest criticisms of DOGE is the lack of transparency surrounding its operations. Musk stated that DOGE “recommends” budget cuts to government departments but claimed that the final decisions are made by those agencies.
Additionally, there have been concerns about who is actually working at DOGE. Musk refused to disclose the total number of employees, saying the initiative began with 40 to 100 people but did not clarify whether that number has grown.
Reports indicate that some DOGE staff members are as young as 19, raising questions about their qualifications and vetting process. Musk defended the organization, stating that DOGE employees must go through the same security clearance as other federal workers, but provided no specifics on what that process entails.
Conspiracy Theories and Controversial Statements
During the interview, Musk and Rogan joked about conspiracy theories, including the claim that the gold in Fort Knox had been stolen. When Rogan asked Musk’s AI chatbot, Grok, about it, the AI responded:
“Are you a f—— conspiracy theorist?”
The exchange drew laughter from both Musk and Rogan, but critics argue that Musk’s engagement with fringe theories undermines his credibility as a government official.
Musk also commented on the political climate, describing Trump’s Cabinet as “the most revolutionary since the first revolution.”
Musk’s Response to Nazi Salute Controversy
Another topic addressed was the backlash Musk received after making a gesture at Trump’s inauguration celebration, which some compared to a Nazi salute. Musk dismissed the criticism, calling it “coordinated propaganda” from mainstream media outlets.
“It was obviously meant in the most positive spirit possible,” Musk said. “Now I can never point at things diagonally.”
Despite his defense, Musk later posted Nazi-related puns on X, which only fueled further criticism.
